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Thursday, January 03, 2008

Day 2 - My Karajan Dilemma

Herbert Von Karajan, for those of you who don’t know, was one of the greatest and most renowned conductors of the 20th century. His obituary in the New York Times even described him as "probably the world's best-known conductor and one of the most powerful figures in classical music." Simply put, he was amazing. Watch any of his videos on youtube and it’ll be clear how unique he was (eyes almost always shut, no music in front of him). But there’s a little snag, see. He was a member of the Nazi party from 1933 – 1945.

Now, there’s a debate as to whether or not he was idealistically a Nazi or rather if he joined simply to boost his career. I’m not going to give my opinion on the issue because I obviously have no way of knowing. For the sake of this conversation, however, my opinion doesn’t really matter; what matters is that he was a suspect Nazi.

My question, then, is how should we treat his music and performances. Should we say that anything he produced should be off-limits? If we did, we wouldn’t be the first people to do so. Musicians such as Isaac Stern, Arthur Rubinstein, and Itzhak Perlman refused to play in concerts with Karajan because of his Nazi past. Now, this question is not limited to Karajan. Rather, it applies to anyone who produces intellectual property of any sort.

It seems that there are two underlying questions here, both of which need our attention. The first: should the life and historical context of an artist (be it musician, author, poet, painter, etc.) be taken into consideration when evaluating their work? And the second: if yes, how much of an effect should the artist’s life and historical context have on how we treat their work? Before I attempt to answer these two questions, however, let me first state that I think this issue is completely subjective. Meaning, I’m not here to tell anyone what or who they should listen to and how they should go about deciding; you all can fetch for yourselves.

To answer the first question, I think the answer is definitely yes; meaning, the life and times of an artist are inseparable with the artist’s creations. For example, if one was to read through paradise lost, it’s very likely that he would complete the masterpiece thinking that John Milton was a misogynist. Of course, such a notion is absurd, especially considering that seventeenth-century England viewed women as wholly inferior to men, essentially evil, and generally to be avoided (except when procreating with). Milton, who, admittedly, did view women as slightly inferior to men, viewed the role of a wife as an important one and that men were not complete without their woman counterparts. This example is just one of many. So yes, the life and times of an artist, in my opinion, are inseparable with the artist’s creations.

The second question is more distinction-oriented. For example, Karajan-if he indeed was a Nazi-never acted on such an ideology. Wagner, too, never acted on his accused anti-semitism and had Jewish friends. I feel, then, that their works are not problematic in the slightest, and that no one should feel guilty listening to their works of magic (as opposed to some people who disagree with me).

But let’s say, for argument’s sake, that they had killed Jews (or anyone, for that matter). What then? I would say that in such a scenario the artists in question should not be listened to, for music (or art, or poetry) is reflective of a person’s inner essence (heads up to Yair Shachak for helping me understand this). And if an artist is a murderer, his music and inner essence is dripping with blood. I want no part of such music. I’d much prefer music that represents a man’s struggle to write music without God’s gift of hearing.

Essentially, then, my rule is that if intellectual property is tainted then I want nothing to do with it. How is tainted defined? Well…that’s subjective. But to me, actions prove a person. Much more than words do, anyway.

17 comments:

Anonymous said...

Great article Tzvi. As I was reading it, a very good example came to my mind that seemed to illustrate your point very clearly. There are many Jewish people who feel that they should not buy German made cars, more specifically BMW's. The BMW company was very close to the Nazi party, and for this reason, many families who escaped the Holocaust refused to buy from the company. Modern BMW does not have ties to the Nazi party as its former owners did, and yet there are still people who won't buy their cars. I am not sure if this fits exactly into what you are trying to say, but I thought that it was an important point to bring up for comparison.

Tzvi Feifel said...

Yes, cubssox2000, you are absolutely correct; the refusal to buy BMWs ties in perfectly with what I'm saying. And you're also correct in saying that associating current Germans with their parents' and grandparents' crimes is a very dangerous path to take. A very dangerous path indeed.

Thanks for the comment!

Anonymous said...

Not just a dangerous path, but a stupid one. Christians hold us responsible for deicide, despite that even if the Jews did do it, we're not our great-great-great grandparents. (Also of course, the fact that Jesus was a Jew doesn't seem to phase them one bit, or the fact that without his death, he never could have risen, so Jews were a crucial part in the plan...) Anyway, the point is, we can't have it both ways - we can't hold Germans today responsible for things their grandparents did and at the same time claim Christians should be tolerant to us for the death of Jesus.

Anonymous said...

You bring up an interesting point. But, I believe that most people would agree that there is a major difference between boycotting a campany or a musician and the persecution of a people.
Also, it seems that your arguement is based on the idea that despite the fact that the Jews of two thousand years ago did not kill Jesus, because the modern day Christians refuse to believe that fact, the Jews have become responsible for his death and need to own up to it. I am certain that the traditional Jewish stance is that we did not kill Jesus, and that we are not looking for toleration from the Christians for his death. I believe that your argument is only valid if modern day Jews began to believe that the Holocaust was caused by modern day Germans - and this is not true. If that did start to happen, then you would be able to compare the two cases. Mine and Tzvi's examples, however, remain valid because the subjects of those examples were either working for or associated with the Nazi party.

Tzvi Feifel said...

"Christians hold us responsible for deicide, despite that even if the Jews did do it, we're not our great-great-great grandparents."

I'm not really sure where you got this from considering that in 1965, the Second Vatican Council issued the Nostra Autate statement, which declared that "what happened in His [Jesus'] passion cannot be charged against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today."

"(Also of course, the fact that Jesus was a Jew doesn't seem to phase them one bit, or the fact that without his death, he never could have risen, so Jews were a crucial part in the plan...)"

Yes, he was halakhicly a Jew. But he was also their leader. And yes, Christians maintain that Jesus's death was necessary and that his sacrifice would have taken place regardless of what kind of death he experienced, be it natural or if forced upon him. What many of them were mad about, however, was the fact that we were the ones who were "responsible." Meaning, they admit that Jesus had to die - but we didn't have to be the ones to kill him.

"Anyway, the point is, we can't have it both ways - we can't hold Germans today responsible for things their grandparents did and at the same time claim Christians should be tolerant to us for the death of Jesus."

Hmm...I think that you’re missing a fundamental distinction between the two cases. When Jews boycott a company, they do so not because they view the company as murderers or as guilty in any way. Rather, the mere association that these companies have with the Nazis is a painful one, and as such, people don't want to buy from them (and perhaps they would experience guilt for purchasing from such companies). But before the charge of deicide was denounced, Christians considered modern-day Jews as equally guilty, for by not apologizing, we are essentially condoning the crucifixion.
Thus, your “point” is flawed. While I disagree with those who would do so, I would understand if someone boycotted certain companies due to the painful associations involved and at the same time demand tolerance from Christians. Oh, and I second cubssox2000 that there is a major difference between boycotting a company or a musician and the persecution of a people. But either way, the Church denounced the charge of deicide and therefore this is all irrelevant.

Anonymous said...

"Christians hold us responsible for deicide, despite that even if the Jews did do it, we're not our great-great-great grandparents."

I'm not really sure where you got this from considering that in 1965, the Second Vatican Council issued the Nostra Autate statement, which declared that "what happened in His [Jesus'] passion cannot be charged against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today."

...Just a note... this just goes for Catholics, Tzvi. And despite this decree, ask any Catholic who killed JC or just read the damn New Testament...tada! the Jews still did it...

Anonymous said...

Hmm...I think that you’re missing a fundamental distinction between the two cases. When Jews boycott a company, they do so not because they view the company as murderers or as guilty in any way. Rather, the mere association that these companies have with the Nazis is a painful one, and as such, people don't want to buy from them (and perhaps they would experience guilt for purchasing from such companies).

...hmmmm a good reason to avoid wagner and karajan...

Anonymous said...

Fiefdom,

C'mon

"I'm not really sure where you got this from considering that in 1965, the Second Vatican Council issued the Nostra Autate statement, which declared that "what happened in His [Jesus'] passion cannot be charged against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today."

Just reeks of of being very naive. What about before 1965? Besides that, ask any Catholic A , They will not even know any decree (majority of Catholics) much less know this one B They will say the Jews were at fault.

Then again most Catholics could not care less so I dont know how much harm it is if they hold us responsible.

BTW dont try so hard it is a BLOG, try wiring a little bit more naturally (unless this is it).

-Denis

P.S. Nice Picture
P.P.S. You really shouldnt use your last name lots of crazy people out there.

Anonymous said...

Interesting article.

Something that bothers me is as follows:
Even if you decide only to avoid intellectual property if the authors actions are tainted, then what impression does that give to non-Jewish people who are aware of a person's notorious views.
May this not give a tacit approval to non-Jewish people that we as Jews are willing to tolerate/look the other way?
If so, is this not dangerous territory to enter?

I am aware that you may answer that no-one knows what you are listening to privately and therefore there is no difference. But surely if we as a community are passively accepting anti-semitics then it sounds out the wrong sort of message to gentiles.

Anonymous said...

Few wrong spellings/grammar in last sentence there - sorry!!!

Tzvi Feifel said...

"...Just a note... this just goes for Catholics, Tzvi.”
Anonymous January 4, 2008 11:17 PM

Ok. First off, it's not just Catholics who rejected the charge of deicide. In 1964, the General Convention of the Episcopal Church said, "We reject the charge of deicide against the Jews and condemn antisemitism."

Second, I also would highly recommend anyone interested in reading this article: http://christianactionforisrael.org/medigest/apr98/vatican.html

If you choose not to read it here's the key quote: “Three weeks after the publication of the Vatican paper, on Good Friday (April 10), the pope astonished Jews world-wide when he made the unprecedented public statement that the Jewish people had ‘been crucified by us [the Christian world] for too long’. It was ‘not they, but we, each and every one of us’ who were and are responsible for Christ's crucifixion, he said. John Paul was not the first pope publicly to retract the accusation of deicide, which more than any other charge spurred vicious Christian anti-Semitism throughout Asia and Europe down the ages. In 1959 John XXIII convened the Vatican II council which exonerated the Jews of the charge of crucifying Jesus. Shortly before his death he composed a prayer of atonement for the Church's accusation against the Jews: ‘Forgive us the curse which we unjustly laid on the name of the Jews. Forgive us that, with our curse, we crucified Thee a second time.’”

Tzvi Feifel said...

And despite this decree, ask any Catholic who killed JC or just read the damn New Testament...tada! the Jews still did it..."
Anonymous January 4, 2008 11:17 PM

“Just reeks of of being very naive. What about before 1965? Besides that, ask any Catholic A , They will not even know any decree (majority of Catholics) much less know this one B They will say the Jews were at fault."
Denis January 4, 2008 11:53 PM

First off, just because individual Christians have a particular view doesn’t matter. What matters is that the official positions of many (if not all) of the various forms of Christianity is that the Jews were not and are not responsible for Jesus’s crucifixion. Individual beliefs do not necessarily reflect the religion as a whole.

Second, the New Testament has been interpreted for almost 2000s years with an anti-Jewish slant. As the Nostra Autate statement said, what happened in His [Jesus'] passion cannot be charged against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today."

Third, before 1965 (or 1959) shouldn’t be talked about, because the Church has apologized for all of the persecution that Jews have suffered on their account. Whether or not you want to accept their apology is a separate issue. (Personally, I do.) But pre-1965 is irrelevant to this conversation.

Tzvi Feifel said...

"...hmmmm a good reason to avoid wagner and karajan..."
Anonymous January 4, 2008 11:20 PM

As I said, it's completely subjective. Personally, I have no problem listening to their music, just as I have no problem buying German products. You, of course, have the right to disagree...

Tzvi Feifel said...

"Even if you decide only to avoid intellectual property if the authors actions are tainted, then what impression does that give to non-Jewish people who are aware of a person's notorious views. May this not give a tacit approval to non-Jewish people that we as Jews are willing to tolerate/look the other way? If so, is this not dangerous territory to enter?"
Bonzo January 5, 2008 3:45 PM

I should clarify something. If a person just preaches hate and incites violence (as opposed to “bearing arms” himself, he is equally as guilty-if not more so-than those who act because of him.

But either way, I’m not really sure what the problem is here. I don’t really understand why listening to a person’s (with questionable views) music should give the impression that we, as Jews, somehow approve of him or that we’re willing to look the other way. Meaning, I can be very against someone’s political or religious views and yet appreciate them as an artist.

Does that answer your question?

Anonymous said...

this is precisely why i don't listen to michael jackson

Tzvi Feifel said...

Jessica -

That is both admirable and courageous.

MHS said...

Perhaps more serious is the medical research done and used. It's the same ans widely written issue.