A few days ago I was discussing with a friend the pasuk, “Vayakom melech chadash al mitzrayim asheir lo yada et Yosef” or, “A new king arose over Egypt who did not know Yosef” (Shemot 1:8). There’s a gemara (Sotah 11a) that records a machloket (argument between) Rav and Shmuel over the correct interpretation of this pasuk. One said that the pasuk means a new king, in the literal sense, arose over Egypt, whereas the other said it was the same king who ruled during the lifetime of Yosef who simply issued new edicts and acted as if he didn’t know Yosef.
During the conversation, I asked my friend which view he subscribed to – a new king proper or the same king who had a change of heart? He, like all Jews, responded with a question of his own. He asked what nafka minah it made – meaning, what practical difference does it make which interpretation is correct?
Truthfully, I was slightly taken aback by his response. I mean, yeah, I guess it doesn’t really make any significant difference, one way or the other. But one might think that striving for the correct interpretation of the Torah would be an important and laudable goal in itself. After all, how many commentators have dedicated (at least part of) their lives to the Torah and its interpretation?
And perhaps this it part of a much larger question about the importance of literal vs. non-literal interpretation of the Torah: is it worth studying? Meaning, does it really matter if the beginning of Vayera (i.e. the three angels visiting Avraham on the third day after his circumcision) was a dream or actually happened? Or what about creation – does it really matter if it took six days or fifteen billion years?
I would suggest that it depends on how you define “matter.” If one wants to look from a practical perspective, asking how this piece of information will “change” one’s life, then no, I guess it doesn’t really “matter.” If one, however, looks from an inquisitive perspective and seeks the truth – then it “matters” very much! All information matters! To understand anything, be it God’s creations or world history, is of value. Of course, the value need not be tangible and fit inside your pocket (or bank account). Rather, knowledge for knowledge’s sake is the objective; truth for truth’s sake is the goal.
During the conversation, I asked my friend which view he subscribed to – a new king proper or the same king who had a change of heart? He, like all Jews, responded with a question of his own. He asked what nafka minah it made – meaning, what practical difference does it make which interpretation is correct?
Truthfully, I was slightly taken aback by his response. I mean, yeah, I guess it doesn’t really make any significant difference, one way or the other. But one might think that striving for the correct interpretation of the Torah would be an important and laudable goal in itself. After all, how many commentators have dedicated (at least part of) their lives to the Torah and its interpretation?
And perhaps this it part of a much larger question about the importance of literal vs. non-literal interpretation of the Torah: is it worth studying? Meaning, does it really matter if the beginning of Vayera (i.e. the three angels visiting Avraham on the third day after his circumcision) was a dream or actually happened? Or what about creation – does it really matter if it took six days or fifteen billion years?
I would suggest that it depends on how you define “matter.” If one wants to look from a practical perspective, asking how this piece of information will “change” one’s life, then no, I guess it doesn’t really “matter.” If one, however, looks from an inquisitive perspective and seeks the truth – then it “matters” very much! All information matters! To understand anything, be it God’s creations or world history, is of value. Of course, the value need not be tangible and fit inside your pocket (or bank account). Rather, knowledge for knowledge’s sake is the objective; truth for truth’s sake is the goal.
15 comments:
If one wants to look from a practical perspective, asking how this piece of information will “change” one’s life, then no, I guess it doesn’t really “matter.”
Do you even realize what you are saying? Every word of Torah changes our life. Every word is HaKadosh Baruch Hu's torah. And learning one word changes our life. Learning torah and doing mitzvos give our lives meaning. We aren't just looking for truth. We are looking to do the ratzon of Hashem. So i have to say that i disagree with you, every word that we learn changes our life, in this world and in the world to come.
Rather, knowledge for knowledge’s sake is the objective; truth for truth’s sake is the goal.
I know you were going for dramatic here, but I don't think you got it. I think you need something like, oh I don't know, "Procastinate Tomorrow." Now that's dramatic!
"...is it worth studying?"
Why do we breathe???
כי הם חיינו ואורך ימינו
!!!
Secret Admirer January 9, 2008 2:14 PM
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First off, I challenge you to tell me how learning one word of Torah changes my life. I’m not saying that it doesn’t – I’m just curious if you can tell me how it does.
And second, whether or not it was the same king has NO bearing on my life. Will I be a better Jew because of it? A better person? Therefore, while I agree with most of what you say, it seems to be off topic. You must distinguish between learning Torah and choosing between various interpretations...or deciding not to choose (due to uncertainty).
p.s. secret admirer – should I be thrilled or concerned?
"I know you were going for dramatic here, but I don't think you got it. I think you need something like, oh I don't know, "Procastinate Tomorrow." Now that's dramatic!"
Anonymous January 9, 2008 2:16 PM
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Sorry that I didn't live up to my reputation. But remember, that was originally a Rabbi Twerski line. But kudos on remembering it!
"...is it worth studying?"
Why do we breathe???
כי הם חיינו ואורך ימינו
!!!
. January 9, 2008 4:39 PM
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Ha ha ha. Very funny.
You know, however, that I was not asking whether it's worth learning Torah. I was asking if it's worth spending time on questioning the literalness (is this a word?) of stories. I, obviously, feel the answer is yes.
How does one word of Torah change your life? Is that your question?
The joy you get in knowing that you are doing the ratzon of Hashem. The joy you get that you are learning the greatest gift that He gave us. Knowing that you are doing that, that is how it changes your life. It seems that you have lost sight of our goal in life, to be closer to Hashem. Having in mind that with every word we learn we get closer to Hashem, that gives me such simcha. It gives me the ability to make it through every day. A day without it feels like a day wasted. That is how it changes my life! It seems like you have lost sight of that!
P.S. Maybe you should be worried.
Are you trying to do a Scrubs thing? Starting all your entries with "My," like Scrubs does with every episode. Man, you are corny.
So all knowledge is the same. It's equally desirable to learn something that no one cares about in the Torah as it is to learn something no one cares about it in the NFL. The NFL is also part of God's creation. So understanding football matters, in a sense.
Also, learning about pornographic filming methods matters and is important because that's part of God's creations. You should open up a yeshiva where you study meaningless midrashim in the morning, then for afternoon seder study sex, and in the night the NFL.
secret admirer January 9, 2008 6:51 PM
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1. Thank you for your enthusiasm and sincerity. It is much appreciated.
2. I agree with everything that you've said. However, I still feel that you need to distinguish between learning Torah and the attempt to determine which opinions are correct. Meaning, someone can be very learned and be able to quote numerous machloksim, (be them tanaic, amoraic, rishonic, or achronic) and feel close to God and be doing the ratzon Hashem and so on. However, that doesn't mean that they're actively seeking the truth. Meaning, learning is great. I hope everyone continues to learn and grow in their yidishkeit (or christianity or islam or whatever it may be). However, I also feel that learning is not enough. For one can be close to God and do his will and yet not care for the truth.
And this point is what I am trying to bring across: we should all strive for truth and correct interpretations, even when they're impossible to know. One shouldn't just shrug his shoulders and say, "What do I care if it was a new king? There's no nafka minah..."
Does that make sense?
1:29 January 10, 2008 1:29 AM
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1. No - all knowledge is not the same. I never suggested such a thing, and quite frankly I'm not sure how you got that from my words.
2. There is, of course, a hierarchy within knowledge, one that differs somewhat for everyone. However, there is no question that Torah takes precedence and that other things follow after. It should also be obvious that one should not be studying things which are halakhicly prohibited.
3. I never said that one should go out and seek every attainable piece of information. I said, rather, that within a person's individual pursuit of knowledge, spanning whichever disciplines one chooses, one should seek the truth and not settle for mediocrity.
"Are you trying to do a Scrubs thing? Starting all your entries with "My," like Scrubs does with every episode."
Anonymous January 9, 2008 6:54 PM
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Nice pick up. I have no doubt, however, that such a formulation will not work every time (even Scrubs occasionally veered from it's usage).
I recently had a question like this that I posed to my Rabbi, the venerable R' Lefkowitz of Chicago, IL. My question was this: If Moshe received the entire Torah at Har Sinai, as we proclaim that he did and as it says he did in the Torah, then Moshe knew everything that was going to happen!? He knew about the M'raglim, about Korach, about May Meriva. Yet he still did them, still went through the motions, still didn't get into Eretz Yisrael.
There are a myriad answers to this question; I will not get into them now. However, the main point that R' Lefkowitz imparted to me after giving me all the different answers was this: it really doesn't make a difference. He said, as long as you believe that Torah is from God, you've got it. As for the details, such as why Moshe went along with it, or if he even knew; well, those you can decide which p'shat you like. If one from the Ba'al Shem Tov about the letters rearranging themselves as they happened tickles your fancy, then go for it.
Everything is Torah. If you have a rav and you ask him a sheilah, and he tells you that you may not do something, you may not do it and that is your halachah. If someone else asks him the exact same question and gets the opposite answer, he may do it and that is his halachah. Torah is in our hands, p'shat is in our hearts. As long as it doesn't have any practical applications in Halachah, you may choose to believe whatever makes you happy b/c it is all Torah.
You're not being responsible for what you say. Your post argues that even though you can't think of a practical reason why this knowledge will help you, you think that it's still helpful to know more stuff, "knowledge for knowledge's sake." So, I ask the simple question, if you don't think that the Torah you're learning is valuable for any real reason, only for gaining more knowledge, why does Torah take precedence over anything else. And you don't respond, instead you just repeat that you don't agree with the conclusions that I drew from your post.
“You're not being responsible for what you say. Your post argues that even though you can't think of a practical reason why this knowledge will help you, you think that it's still helpful to know more stuff, "knowledge for knowledge's sake."”
nicktoons January 10, 2008 3:41 PM
First of all, please post under the same name; it gets confusing, otherwise.
Second, I don’t only argue “knowledge for knowledge’s sake.” The second part of that sentence, which you conveniently omitted, was “truth for truth’s sake.” And that was really the point of this post, to bemoan the antipathy that plagues our generation (or at least my friend). It bothered me (and perhaps it shouldn’t have) that he didn’t care about which interpretation was correct. And even though such information is impossible to find out it bothered me, for I have no doubt that he would have responded similarly even if the correct interpretation was determinable – after all, there’s no nafka minah!
“So, I ask the simple question, if you don't think that the Torah you're learning is valuable for any real reason, only for gaining more knowledge, why does Torah take precedence over anything else.”
1. You have misinterpreted me. I, of course, feel strongly that learning Torah is extremely valuable, and not simply for the sake of acquiring knowledge.
2. Even if I did feel that learning Torah is only valuable for knowledge, then it would still take precedence because we have a mitzvah to learn Torah. As “.” so eloquently quoted Rav Aharon Lichtenstein in response to why we learn Torah – “Why do we breathe? כי הם חיינו ואורך ימינו!!!
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